Ghosts Season 4 Just Gave Us Its Most Emotional Moment Yet—And Fans Are Still Sobbing

danielle-pinnock-ghosts-season-4-interview

The latest episode of Ghosts brings a bachelorette party and a new spirit to the Woodstone B&B, along with some thrilling flashbacks and character work for the manion’s resident musician, Alberta (Danielle Pinnock). Ghosts has been on a roll as of late, with the series recently receiving a double season renewal through 2027. Season 4 has featured some major character development as we dig deeper into the inner lives of the people who’ve been haunting the grounds for decades and, in some cases, centuries.

To celebrate Alberta’s big hero moment and her connection with her great grandniece Alicia (Ashley Kelley), I sat down with Danielle Pinnock to discuss all things Ghosts Season 4. During our wide-ranging conversation, we spoke about the cast and crew’s continued efforts to make sure that diversity and representation ring true within the series, celebrating Black excellence with “The Bachelorette Party,” and more big moments to come for Alberta. Pinnock also teased that she would love to write an episode of the series, shadow the show’s producers, and see Alberta rap in future seasons. Finally, she revealed romance is on the horizon for Ghosts, and fans are in for a wild ride as we approach the final episodes of Season 4.

‘Ghosts’ Goes Back to the 1920s in “The Bachelorette Party”

“All the elements that could have played a role, they were playing.”

COLLIDER: I love any time we get flashbacks, and this is such a good flashback episode for Alberta. I love that twist we get of how the first flashback is not exactly how it happened. This also feels like the youngest we’ve ever seen Alberta. What was it like to really just jump in and explore that part of her backstory that we hadn’t seen?

DANIELLE PINNOCK: I have to say that Alberta is an ancestor to Alicia, who is played just marvelously by Ashley Kelley, who was a dear friend of mine. We actually went to college together. So when you’re thinking of your ancestors, you’re thinking of them as guiding and protecting us, but sometimes, ancestors like Alberta may not keep you on the right path. They may just cause some shenanigans, and they may make things just a little bit more complicated. So, I think that’s the thing that I love most about this bachelor party episode is seeing an ancestor fall short. That flashback was really important for me because we get to see Alberta’s Tulsa roots. A couple of years after that flashback was the Tulsa riots, which were just so damaging and historical for Black people. So to be in that neighborhood and community, just thriving in all of its beauty, was just incredible to me.

I have to say that we also were filming in negative nine-degree weather. [Laughs] We filmed in Montreal, and not everyone is going to know that. I got the call the day of Thanksgiving from our showrunners saying, “Hey, just to let you know, there’s an exterior scene that we’re going to be filming. We’re doing a flashback of Tulsa,” and I was so excited. They’re like, “Also, it’s going to be negative nine degrees. But you will have coats, and you will have heating pads.” Those are the things the audience doesn’t see—I had heating pads in my shoes, I have them inside my coat, and I just thought I looked so fabulous.

Doing this scene with Justin Hurtt-Dunkley, it was the end of the day; I think we’d worked maybe a 14-hour day, and it was the first time he and I met. The crew wanted to get home because they were like, “It’s cold! Let’s wrap it up!” So, we didn’t have many opportunities to shoot a lot. So while we were inside the house and holding, we were just like, “Let’s run this scene a bunch of times.” I have to say that he gives an exceptional performance, and it was really, really cool to meet him, even even though it felt like 10 minutes when we were all on set together. But he was amazing. We were fighting snow because, in one of his takes, it started snowing. All the elements that could have played a role, they were playing.

That’s amazing. You mentioned the costumes a little bit. Since you’re such a fashion girlie, I did want to touch on getting a different costume for Alberta this episode.

PINNOCK: Oh my gosh, any time I think any of the ghosts can switch it up is such a great honor because our wardrobe department are truly masters of the craft. When I came back to Montreal from Thanksgiving, that was the first thing we did. Seeing the shoes and the tights and the slips that she would have worn, and that coat with the mink fur around it, just really put me right back into that time period, which was so rich for Black people fashion-wise, but also just a legendary time period during the Prohibition Era for us musically, as well, too. And we know that Alberta is a fashion girly. I mean, look what she died in. She’s literally in crushed velvet! So, I just would imagine her in her early 20s, like, this is exactly what she would be wearing. She would be wearing fur on her way to the big city, to New York. So, it was such a dream getting to be able to switch out of the wardrobe and to have another look.

Danielle Pinnock Celebrates Black Excellence on ‘Ghosts’

“It felt like that Spider-Man meme where Spider-Man is pointing at himself!”

I also noticed that this episode has a Black director and a Black writer. I want to give you just a moment to celebrate those behind-the-scenes voices for this episode.

PINNOCK: It was very coincidental that this all happened. I think when we all realized it on set, it felt like that Spider-Man meme where Spider-Man is pointing at himself! [Laughs] Pete Chatmon we worked with before, and Akilah Green, but to have a Black director, with a Black writer, with a Black actor leading the A storyline was very historical for this show. It just goes to show you that in this show, representation really does matter. So, I’m really grateful for CBS and Paramount and BBC and Lionsgate, as well as to our incredible writers and Joe Port and Joe Wiseman, our showrunners, because they really want to make sure that diversity rings true on this. So, it was great.

I have to say, going to work every day felt like I was at a family reunion. It was nuts. Because it was Ashley Kelley who was there, it was actually Ashley Blaine Featherston-Jenkins, who’s also there, from Dear White People—she’s guest starring on the series—it was Justin Hurtt-Dunkley. I was just like, “This kind of Black excellence, I’m living for it!” So much fun. It was a blast to shoot this episode. It really was.

It is such a good episode, and I love that you get to play fairy godmother to Alicia, even with the ups and downs. I love the scene of you two singing together again. It’s so beautiful. It brought a tear to my eye. What was it like to get to use Alberta’s power in such an emotional and powerful moment, especially with everyone sort of mocking her power?

PINNOCK: First of all, Alberta’s been getting bullied for her power this entire season now. We have the other ghosts who have these kind of godlike powers, like Pete, who can leave the property and disappear, and Sasappis, who can enter into folks’ dreams and stuff. But humming, when you think of the scale of what you can do as a ghost, it’s not that cool, right? But for me, I was really excited that I got to lead Alicia into the right direction to the love of her life with my ghost power.

I remember when we first sang because we didn’t have much time to learn the song. I think we had maybe about 48 hours, and we had an excellent coach. Trying to get those harmonies, as well as learning all the monologues in the scenes of that week, was really difficult; I’m not gonna lie. I was like, “Oh my gosh, can I do it?” All I wanted to do was make everyone proud. I wanted to rise to the occasion because this was a very special episode, with all these incredible Black artists. I’m like, “I want to prove that I can do this.” I remember when we harmonized for the first time in the rehearsal, there was not a dry eye in the house, and so Ashley and I were like, “Okay, I think we got it. We can finally do it.” And she and I have the same kind of work ethic, so we were just drilling that song. I would be in the bathroom and I would see her little shoes, and I’m like, “Alright, let’s hit it!” So, we were drilling that song.

I still have yet to see the episode, and so I can’t wait to see how it all comes together. But I think there’s something very beautiful and spiritual and ancestral, especially when it comes to Black people and their ancestors. So, whether we see little signs, like, I remember when my grandmother passed away, she used to have a sunflower garden in the front of her house, and I would see sunflowers on the way to work sometimes, or things like that. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, is this her with me?” Or I would have dreams about her. So, there’s something that is really impactful and powerful that’s also very specific to the Black experience that I think having Alberta in that final moment coming and having Alicia hear it and then them harmonizing together, was just something powerful for the generations.

For a lot of people who have lost loved ones, that’s what’s so special about this show. Everyone can understand what that moment is like, whether it’s the sunflowers that they see of their loved ones or whether they’re baking a recipe that’s passed down, we all know what it means to pay homage to the people that we love that have passed on. So, I think that’s what’s so special about that moment, specifically when we’re singing together. It was just a celebration of life.

Will We Get More Musical Moments for Alberta on ‘Ghosts’?

“I would love to see Alberta rap.”

I really love the song choice. It feels so perfectly Alberta. It’s such a beautiful way to both connect to them and to get that specific message to Alicia. I do wonder, though, do you have a wishlist of songs that you’d like to sing as Alberta? You’ve gotten to sing a couple this season.

PINNOCK: I would love at some point to sing “Misty,” that would be definitely something. And I’m also not gonna lie, I think there would be something really cool about Alberta discovering who Queen Latifah is.

Yes!

PINNOCK: I think something where she’s like, ‘What is this rap? Like, what is this hip-hop thing?’ And then she just like, does “U-N-I-T-Y” by Queen Latifah. Or like if she discovers who Doechii is, and she’s like, ‘I’m into it, I’m feeling it’ or Lauryn Hill. That’s the great thing about these characters, they can expand in any way. And this universe it just lends itself to just so many shenanigans. So yes, her discovering Lauryn Hill or Queen Latifah or Doechii would be a dream. I would love to see Alberta rap. I mean, it would be iconic.

It’s so iconic. I think I’m jumping off that a little bit. I am such a playlist person. I make playlists all the time. I’m wondering, do you have a playlist for Alberta?

PINNOCK: I do, so there’s a ton of Ella Fitzgerald on there. There’s a lot. There’s Ma Rainey, there’s Billie Holiday, John Coltrane. I have Miles Davis on there. It’s very jazz-forward. But then I also have just kind of some empowering tracks. You may find some Ariana Grande.

She has the range!

PINNOCK: You might find some “Defying Gravity,” by Cynthia Erivo on there. But yeah, no, for the most part, it’s quite jazzy, but there are some other little things that snuck their way into the playlist, especially this season because Wicked, we were watching it while the season was going and Wicked literally changed my life. So I mean, “Defying Gravity” is all up and through that playlist for sure.

I love that so much. We’ve had so many hilarious little nods to Alberta’s backstory, as well, this season. In addition to the flashbacks, we had that moment a couple of episodes ago where she said, “Do you think my real name’s Alberta?” That had me in tears!

PINNOCK: Oh my God, I know! And I was like, “Huh?” Literally, I told the Joes. I think they were trying to do something with that storyline for this season, but they may push it to next season. So, I cannot wait to know. This woman is such a con artist and such a scammer. I’m like, “Who is the real Alberta? How’d she get this name?” And I have to say that over these last four seasons, she’s had such a journey, and it’s evolved. When we met her, she was very bold and glamorous and full of that 1920s confidence and flair, but deep down was just very stuck and defined by her tragic death and really just waiting for justice. Now that she’s uncovered the truth about her murder and the betrayal from Hetty, as well, too, she’s let go of all of those feelings, but now, she’s really just trying to find her vulnerability. I think that’s kind of the exciting thing about this character, but also, we don’t really know all about her, and we don’t know all about these ghosts.

That’s the beauty for Seasons 5 and 6. I feel like we’re just tapping at the surface. We got the ghosts’ powers, there are all these new love interests, Alberta just had this escapade with this Negro baseball player played by Lamorne Morris. You know what I mean? There’s so much more to come, and so I’m excited for fans to see Seasons 5 and 6. I do not take it for granted that I have this job security, especially during this climate, and so I feel really, really blessed and so grateful that I get to be on broadcast TV with this cast and that we get to create joy every Thursday on CBS, truly.

Danielle Pinnock and Rebecca Wisocky Want To Do a Play Within a Play on ‘Ghosts’

“All of us in the cast are theater nerds”.

Do you have any personal headcannons about Alberta’s past, either when she was alive or in the 100 years that we haven’t seen, that you’d want to explore on screen?

PINNOCK: Oh my gosh, you know what? In addition to knowing what her real name is, I would love—and Rebecca [Wisocky] and I have pitched this—an episode where they do a play within a play.

I would love that!

PINNOCK: So whether it’s a Shakespearean play or some sort of a Greek tragedy or whatever, because all of us in the cast are theater nerds, whether we did improv or theater or Broadway. To do a play within a play would be amazing. I also have pitched that I would love for the girls to have the Ghosts girls, like an episode focused on us, whether we’re trying to make the Spice Girls or we’re trying to do our own thing. A Ghosts girl group? I’m like, “Can we get a little SWV moment for the Ghosts girls?” I would love that. But honestly, whatever the Joes and our writers have in store, they have surpassed my expectations time and time again.

This is actually what I will say, it just clicked. This is something I’ve been pitching, and on my hiatus, I plan on writing a spec script for this episode. I want to see Alberta and a few of the ghosts end up in hell by accident.

[Gasp] I love it!

PINNOCK: I want to see what that would look like. Who are the characters that are in hell? You know what I mean? What is Lucifer looking like? Is it just like Olive Garden, with like endless cheese? Who is the band that’s playing? We know its Chumbawamba. What is going on down there for real? And if they get trapped and stuck, that would be, I think, absolutely a great misadventure. So, yeah, we’ll see. But they know better than us. They do. They are record. They know. And so I’m alon for the ride. I’m just here for the ride.

I love that so much. With Rose hopping behind the camera this season. I’m curious if you have any interest in directing. And now, you mentioned this spec script. Do you want to write an episode? What are you interested in doing behind the scenes?

PINNOCK: I would love to shadow our executive producers because producing is something that I’ve been interested in for a very, very long time. I would also love to write an episode. Whether the writers will have me or if somebody will collaborate with me on a script, I don’t know how the ins and outs of that go, but that has been the dream since Season 1.

And I have to say, Rose was an incredible director to work with. I hope when the show is over that she hires me for something else, because I think she was just absolutely fabulous. She is so on it and has such a clear vision and is so motivating and inspiring. So yeah, she’s inspired us all to kind of go on our own little path in the Ghosts universe, and so who knows who will direct next or write an episode next. But I love this show, and I love that CBS is championing us to do these things. It means a lot.

That makes me so happy. Hopefully, with the two seasons, you guys will all get to explore those things.

PINNOCK: Fingers crossed!

We’re manifesting it.

Danielle Pinnock Teases Another “Massive” Episode for Alberta in ‘Ghosts’ Season 4

“I hope they just stay tuned because the payoff is worth it.”

This episode ends on a pretty big cliffhanger, with Chris the stripper crashing into the roof. Can you tease anything about this new addition to the house or next week’s episode?

PINNOCK: Well, what I will say is that love is in the air at Woodstone mansion, and it’s unexpected as to who gets Chris’s attention.

Excellent. So when Alberta lets go of the secret of having broken her young beau’s heart, it feels like such a big character moment. It feels like we’re getting a lot of big character moments this season. Should we be worrying about anyone getting sucked off?

PINNOCK: I can’t say anything about that, but what I will say is that Alberta this season really taps into vulnerability in a way that she hasn’t in any other season. And I think this was a catalyst and actually really a turning point for her to grieve that loss of that fiancé, but also now to accept new love and new possibilities. So there’s a really massive Alberta episode that’s to come and I’m really excited for fans to see it. And I hope they just stay tuned because the payoff is worth it.

That sounds so exciting. One of the things that I really love about this show is that you can sort of shake up the ensemble, and every single combination of you guys just comes out pure magic. Can you tease anything in these upcoming episodes about any team-ups you’re excited for or any groupings that surprised you?

PINNOCK: Honestly, in these episodes, people are in for a ride. I want people to just brace themselves. I can’t talk too much about it because I’m afraid I’m going to divulge too much, but what I will say is that this is our best season yet. We are digging into the ghosts, their inner life and their personalities and their powers in a way that we’ve never seen before, but also, a lot of them are challenged in a lot of ways in terms of finding love in their afterlife and also trusting themselves more and finding more vulnerability. So, I will say that I love this season a lot. They’ve expanded us in so many different ways.

A ghost that I want to highlight is Sasappis, played by Román Zaragoza. I think Román has done an excellent job this season. He’s singing this season, he has a love interest, he’s going into these dreams. I know that he’s wanted more. This season for him is an incredible showcase, and I hope the industry is watching because Román is it. He is amazing. He really is. I know that doesn’t really answer your question, but I just want to hype up my little nephew.

No, that’s great. I need a Sasappis episode soon!

PINNOCK: There’s so much more to come. I’m excited for our audiences to see it. It’s a great season.

I love the scene on the subway with him singing. You’re sort of managing the dream from the sidelines.

PINNOCK: Absolutely nuts. Alberta’s a mess. She’s like, “We’re going to get this wedding called off!” It’s so funny. And I have to just say that when we finally finished that episode, I was able to take my cast and crew out to my favorite restaurant in Montreal, Tropikal, and just treated them because I was just like, “Thank you all so much.” When I tell you I’m so grateful for this storyline, any storyline that I do get, or any opportunity I do get to really show my chops, is just such a blessing for me. So, I was really, really excited for this and also to collaborate on this episode with Pete Chatmon and Akilah, as well as Ashley Kelley and Ashley Blaine and all of these incredible Black artists. It was truly a treat. It really was.

Representation Still Matters on ‘Ghosts’

“When we see in the world where DEI initiatives are going away at such a rapid pace, that is not the case here on Ghosts.”

That’s wonderful. You’ve had some really hilarious one-liners and short bits. I’m curious if you have a favorite joke from this season.

PINNOCK: Oh, God! It’s so hard. From past seasons, the thing that my family repeats all the time is when I tell Flower to shut up. When I say, “Shut up, Flower.” That is the thing that literally I can walk into my family’s house right now and my niece, my nephew, they’ll be like, “Shut up, Flower!” It is the funniest thing. I want to see more of that Alberta/Flower dynamic in the future. I love her. How are they friends? How do they connect? Because Sheila Carrasco is my best friend in real life, and so I would love that.

Also, I’m going to say I want to give a huge shoutout to Punam Patel, who is another very dear friend of mine, and I think she just excels in this season. There’s so much more to come with her character, as well, too. So, the representation that we have around the South Asian culture with Jay and his restaurant and meeting his family is so important. So, when we see in the world where DEI initiatives are going away at such a rapid pace, that is not the case here on Ghosts. I’m really excited to be on this show with this cast and this crew that really makes sure that our stories matter, as well.

Absolutely. And on that note, I want to end by saying congratulations on your NAACP Award. You and this cast honestly deserve all the awards. I’m manifesting Emmys in all your futures.

PINNOCK: Thank you! That NAACP Image Award was the award that I’ve wanted since I was 12 years old, and so to have gotten it for this role, for essentially a hidden figure in the Black community, Alberta Haynes, really does mean the world to me. And to be celebrated by people that look like me is just the highest honor that I can have. I just want to ESSENCE Black Women in Hollywood luncheon, and this is my third time going to that event, which is a ton of icons—Kym Whitley and Lena Waithe and Cynthia Erivo and Tabitha Brown—all these incredible humans, and everyone knew that I won. Everyone had voted for me—Danielle Brooks, Oscar-nominated, Natasha Rothwell, all of these incredible, Black, iconic women that I have loved and watched their stuff. They all know about this win, and to be celebrated by them as well as my family, my mother, my husband, these last two weeks have been amazing.

Ghosts Season 4 is currently airing on Thursdays on CBS. You can watch past episodes on Paramount+.