Ahead of the finale, I sat down with Ghosts showrunners Joe Port and Joe Wiseman to discuss all things Season 4. During our conversation, we spoke about why they chose to put Jay in this pickle for the finale, why now is the right time to explore a relationship between Pete and Alberta, and what Hetty (Rebecca Wisocky) and Trevor’s (Asher Grodman) relationship might look like in the future. We also spoke about Sass’ (Román Zaragoza) death reveal, what kinds of episodes they’d like to do more of in Seasons 5 and 6, whether we’ll get annual St. Patrick’s Day episodes for Hetty’s ghost power, their new vampire comedy Eternally Yours, and more! You can read our full conversation below.
COLLIDER: I really love how, after a whole season of emphasizing how much the whole house loves Jay, that cliffhanger threat, having him sort of be under the scope, I guess, of Elias. I feel like that really sets up a lot of great tension and maybe some fun physical comedy for 501. What made you guys want to choose Jay for this big cliffhanger? And what can you tease about where that storyline will pick up?
JOE PORT: Yeah, Utkarsh and Rose are both so funny and so talented. And you know, Rose has a big job with being able to talk to all the ghosts. She has to talk to the ghosts, even when they’re not in the scenes. It’s a real high-wire act. Utkarsh has a kind of quieter role, but it’s very hard to do what he does, which is to act like you’re not seeing eight other people in the scene with you. He’s amazing at it. There’s something very funny to us about [how] his character is nothing but unconditional love for his wife, and he gets nothing but punishment for it. The consequences are constantly befalling Jay, and obviously, this is the biggest one thus far.
I really have loved the development of his relationship with the ghost this season. And I think that really stitches him in more. And I really like that.
PORT: He’s developing some nice independent friendships with these people whom he can’t see. The Sass dream thing was a fun addition in Season 3 that we followed up on.
WISEMAN: And he’s had a long-standing relationship with Pete. They both love to watch basketball and play DnD.
PORT: Pete ironically is the only ghost he’s never met.
Exactly. [Laughs]
WISEMAN: Yeah, he finally got to meet all the ghosts except for Pete in our Christmas episode.
‘Ghosts’ Season 5 Is Turning Up the Heat For Pete and Alberta
“We think both of those characters are people that deserve love.”
PORT: Well, I think getting face-palmed can make you kind of reevaluate things. And I use that as sort of a shorthand for him being no longer available and him kind of saying no to her for very justified reasons because he’s with someone else now, was a wake-up call, I think, for her. We think both of those characters are people that deserve love. They’re both very vulnerable and sensitive, and we think it’s an interesting pairing to see how they do together.
I really loved their separate gossip sessions with Hetty and Thor. What can you tease about the future of Pete in Alberta? What can we expect from that relationship?
WISEMAN: Yeah, no, I love that too. We call it the “Tell me more! Tell me more!” sequence from the song in Grease. But, you know, they’re going to have to navigate the beginnings of a relationship next season and the sort of joy and pitfalls that that can bring. They’re also two people who’ve been hurt very badly in previous relationships. So they’re going to have to learn to trust each other, that they’re not going to hurt each other like they’ve been hurt in the past.
WISEMAN: Yeah, I think short term, they’re going to remain sort of like “power friends” and, you know, long term, could there be something there? It’s very possible. We noticed online there’s a lot of people who are very vocal about wanting to get them back together, which is nice. So we’ll just sort of see, we’re not going to push anything, but that is something that is very possible down the road.
I love that.
‘Ghosts’ Showrunners Want To Make More Flashback Episodes
“I would like to see more of all the ghosts alive in bigger doses.”
There are so many great pairings on this show, from these two that we’ve mentioned, Sam and Jay, Thor and Flower, Nigel and Isaac, Sass and Joan — which, we need more Joan by the way — but I’ve really loved this season, you guys have sort of leaned into some romantic comedy tropes. So, as a writer, do you have a favorite trope of any genre that you’re dying to explore on the show? Like, I would love to see a Rashomon Effect-type episode.
PORT: Oh, that’s interesting! Yeah, I mean, this isn’t a trope so much, I’m interested in exploring some flashback episodes. We did it to some degree with the Isaac/Hamilton episode, but I would like to see more of all the ghosts alive in bigger doses, and I think there’s some great opportunities to do that.
I love that answer. I love when you guys do flashbacks. And that Isaac episode was so good.
We’ve had a couple of really interesting years for television here. I’m curious, from a writing standpoint, how’s it been coming off of the strike season and then back into a full season and then getting that double season renewal?
WISEMAN: Yeah. No, look, we’re very grateful. We’re very grateful to be able to do what we do and to work on such a great show with such great collaborators. Our entire writing staff and our crew in Montreal, and the cast are all just top notch. So, yeah, we’re we’re we’re very grateful. And the two-season pickup is it’s such a luxury. It’s nice to have that stability, and it’s nice to, as we’re talking stories and story arcs out, to sort of know that we have the possibility of not rushing something if we feel it shouldn’t be rushed.
PORT: Yeah. It was weird to do the ten-episode season after the long break for the strike. It’s just a totally different beast. When you do ten, basically, everybody got one episode, you know, of the ghosts, and you’re really hitting more like major story points. It’s it really wasn’t less story than we would do over 22, but over 22, you can do — they used to call them filler episodes, but I call them exploration episodes.
They’re very important.
Getting Renewed For Two Seasons Didn’t Change Any ‘Ghosts’ Season 4 Plans
“We want to make sure that every season and every arc is fun, and dynamic, and satisfying.”
With the double renewal, are you planning to dig into more different styles of episodes, like you sort of started to with this season, extending some of the plots over multiple episodes? I’m curious what that looks like for the next few seasons.
PORT: I do think that’s a very useful tool for writing, and just thinking about the season and breaking it down into arcs, you know? It was very fun to have Taylor there, Taylor Ortega, who plays Joan there; she ended up being in three episodes. That was like a great little arc that we got to explore with her and Sass. We’ve done other such arcs, and it’s great. It’s a great way to have someone there for a few episodes and really get to let them have fun with the cast.
When you learned about the double renewal, did it change any of your plans for the end of this season?
There’s not really one in this episode, but there have been a couple of moments this season, and just in general across the show, where all of the ghosts are sort of talking at once, and it’s really fun. I’m curious, with those scenes, how much is on the page, and how much do you let these actors just go crazy?
PORT: Yeah, when they do that, where they’re all talking at once or it’s like a crescendoing argument, that’s the cast, really. That’s the director and the cast, and they’re very good at that. I noticed that too. It’s a very particular skill set. Yeah, I love that.
The ‘Ghosts’ Showrunners Promise We’ll Learn How Sass Died — Eventually
“We definitely have an idea or two that we’ve sort of talked about.”
Everyone is super curious to know how Sass died. And no spoilers, of course, but after speaking with Román [Zaragoza] earlier this season, I know he’s got certain hopes for the tone of that storyline. I’m curious, do you have an idea already for what you want that to be? And do you think we’ll see it in these next two seasons?
PORT: She said the next two seasons. So yeah.
Yeah, you’ve got plenty of room.
PORT: I’m gonna promise that.
WISEMAN: [Laughs] You’re gonna promise? All right. All right.
Now that we know Hetty’s ghost power, and that it’s tied to a holiday, will we be getting annual Saint Patrick’s Day episodes like we get with Halloween and Christmas?
PORT: I mean, I think that’s a funny thing that have. Well, it’s a useful thing for us to have a kind of perennial, you know? We love seeing Stephanie, the attic ghost who comes down once a year. I mean, it seems like a very funny, predicament and situation to have a visible Hetty once a year. I know some people are hoping that it would be more frequent than that, perhaps there could be circumstances that would lead to that, but I really like the idea of an annual thing.
WISEMAN: Yeah, we always do a Halloween special. And, I hope that we get to do more of the Christmas specials. Those are always fun to write and shoot. And then, yeah, I think so. It’s fun to have another sort of milepost that we’re going to hit every season.
I love those episodes. I feel like with streaming shows, we lose holiday episodes. And I absolutely love them.
Lamorne Morris’ Appearance in ‘Ghosts’ Season 3 Opened up the Doors for More Guest Stars
“It seemed like we started getting a lot more yeses after that.”
We sort of got a hint with Joan’s power having grown over the years. I’d love to know if you have any plans to play with the powers of our ghosts, and how those might change over time?
WISEMAN: Yeah, that’s a very, very good question. She seems to imply that powers can evolve or get more powerful. So that could be something that our ghosts experience.
There are so many fantastic guest stars in this season. When crafting these roles for Patience, Sam and Jay’s parents, Joan, Kyle, and all of these people are so perfectly cast. Did you write any of them with specific people in mind, or was it just perfect serendipity?
PORT: No, I don’t think we had any of those people in mind necessarily when we were conceiving the roles. But we have great casting directors, and there’s Liz Barnes and Tannis Vallely, and they bring us great people. And if the
character is really clear on the page, I think that’s a big advantage too, in making those roles pop. So we’ve been very lucky. We got great people this season.
I’ve loved seeing more of our recurring guest stars this season, too with Bela being around more and Mark being around more, it adds a great texture to the show.
WISEMAN: Yeah, for sure.
I feel like there are truly an endless number of combinations that you can get out of this cast. Are there any dynamics that have surprised you as you’ve written them, or any dynamics that you’re particularly excited to explore in the next two seasons?
WISEMAN: Oh, good question.
PORT: Yes, there are definitely pairings that we haven’t really explored, and I’m not talking romantically, I’m talking about literally like two characters that haven’t had a story together. And I can’t think of them off the top of my head but–.
WISEMAN: Flower and Sass, I think, have had very little together.
PORT: They finally had a scene together at Christmas. They told us they had never had a scene together, just the two of them. So during the Christmas special, we made a point of doing that. But, yeah, there are so many different combinations. It’s endless with ten people on the cast.
I want to see Hetty and Pete have to work together for some reason.
PORT: Yes, they have not!
WISEMAN: Yeah. [Laughs]
Lastly, I know you guys are developing a vampire comedy, which sounds so fun. Can you tease anything about that project?
Ghosts will return for Season 5 this fall on CBS. Stay tuned at Collider for more and stream Season 4 on Paramount+.
